Compiled
by Kota Discussion Group
In Honor and Loving
Memory of Our Children
Welcome to Part IV of
our Grief Jouney Q &
A. The content here is
generated from an online
discussion and support
group for bereaved parents.
The creator of this Grief
Journey Q & A is Stephanie
Marrotek who posts questions
once a day or once a week
and invites all members
of the discussion group
to post answers. In addition
to answering on the group,
some members have elected
to share their insights
in a more public way through
this column. Our hope
is that you will find
some spark of inspiration
or comfort or help here.
These words are not offered
as prescription for the
ways we "should"
handle grief. These are
just insights into how
others are managing day
by day after the death
of a child.
When confronted
with the first pregnancy
and healthy birth of a child
after the death of your
own child, did you fear
that your child would be
completely forgotten or
that your child's identity
would be lost due to the
newly born next child? If
so, can you talk about that
fear a little? Can you say
a little about how you came
to terms with this fear?
Can you say a little about
how/what/when you finally
realized that *both* your
child and this newly born
child could/would/did/do
exist at the same time and
that neither one of them
cancels out the existence
of the other...
It was a full three
years after our son's stillbirth
before I had to really deal
with any pregnancies in
my everyday life. I had
3 very good, dear friends
get preggers, 1 stepdaugher,
and and then various folks
from my writing and artistic
life -- all preggers at
the same time!!! And let
me tell you, at first, it
was pure hell. I just wanted
to run away from all of
them. BUT some interesting
things happened.
Three of these people really
came to me face-to-face
with tenderness and love
and caring and said something
like, "It still sucks
for me, too, that your Dakota
is dead because I want him
here, too. And I want my
child to know your child.
And I want to know your
child. And I want you to
know my child. And I hate
that he isn't here for any
of us. And I want to know
how to include you in our
journey now because I don't
want to lose you, too."
AND THEY MEANT IT! They
understood that I desperately
wanted to be invited to
the baby shower, BUT ALSO
wanted to be excused from
attending. And they were
each kind enough to make
one-on-one time with me
after the shower for us
to really talk, to explore
hopes and fears, to see
the gifts, to be together
-- AS A MOTHER WITH A DEAD
CHILD AND A MOTHER WITH
A CHILD ON THE WAY -- TOGETHER!!!
They taught me that there
was room in this world for
ALL our children!!! Their
children didn't cancel out
my child. They were gifts
sent straight from my son
in heaven, I'm sure of it.
Mind you, there were others
who were not so gracious
and understanding. They
simply did not want to look
at my "mother of a
dead child" face and
deal with any of their own
fears. So I let them go
away. Not easy to do because
it is more loss on top of
loss. BUT I could not wear
some "la-la" mask
around them either, so let
them go on their merry way
and wish them the best.
Buh-bye. If I had grasped
on and tried to keep these
others in my life, it would
have been a relationship
of scarcity and fear that
said there was only room
for their living children
and no room for my dead
child. I don't need that
in my life.
SO!! I am eternally grateful
for those who have big enough
hearts and visions and world-perspectives
that they accept me whole,
including my bereaved parenthood
AND are willing to let me
witness their living parenthood.
~Kara
The first pregnancy and
healthy birth that I confronted,
was the birth of my best
friend Shaun's baby girl,
Mikaili. We were pregnant
together, due within 2
weeks of each other. It
was so hard, the day I
met that baby. She was
so precious and perfect
and as I held her 3 day
old form, I wept for my
baby, not yet 2 months
in the ground. But I knew
that this child would
always be special to me,
and that I would always
love her and look at her
and see what I should
be dealing with and enjoying.
I think that my biggest
fears with her, were that
she wouldn't like me!!LOL!
I do not think that
my child will be forgotten
because of her, in fact,
Mikaili's mom said that
she thinks that Amanda
Joy is Mikaili's gaurdian
angel. And that makes
perfect sense to me, because
I have not ever recieved
signs from Amanda, but
everytime I am with Mikaili,
I seem to see really beautiful
things, like butterflies
and sunsets and rainbows.
Maybe it is just coincidence,
but I really think it
is true! My baby is watching
over Mikiaili, they would
have been best friends
in life, just like their
moms!
~Stephanie
I haven't had any subsequent
children. Charles is my
only child. I do get people
from time to time that say...'there
will be other children'
as if my first born doesn't
matter. I usually respond
by saying, 'That may be
true, but Charles will always
be my first born and he
will always be a part of
my life whether or not I
have future children.' My
Mom acknowledges that she
is a Grandma to Charles.
She is considered to be
my main family. Knowing
that she feels such love
for Charles is more important
to me than anyone else's
response to Charles &
future children that I may
have. And most importantly,
what I know and feel is
what really matters. I am
a Mom to Charles.
~Katie
I am so impressed at
how nice all of you have
been answering this question.
I think that the title
of my answer could be
"Angry."
One of the first babies
to be born after Lily
died that I knew the mom
pretty well was my friend,
Jessi and she named her
baby girl, Ryann. She
also smoked a pack a day
throughout her pregnancy
and did with her first
as well. This bothered
me immensely because smoking
increases the risk of
a placental abruption
dramatically yet I didn't
smoke and I had a placental
abruption -- there is
logic there somewhere,
I'm sure of it.
Anyways -- I must be
a really horrible person
because I AM NOT GOING
TO HOLD THAT BABY. I don't
want to look at that baby.
I totally know in my head
that baby did not do anything
to me but I CAN'T DEAL
WITH THAT BABY. Plus,
I don't want to flatter
myself and think that
baby needs my love --
it gets plenty so i admire
from afar.
Another baby that I AM
NOT EVER GOING TO EVEN
BE IN THE SAME ROOM WITH
is my husband's best friends
baby girl, Emma, who was
born about a month after
Lily -- we were pregnant
together. This is the
girl who came into my
work the week that she
had her bitching about
how much she wanted to
have the baby and be in
labor and how uncomfortable
she was and how she was
so sick and tired of being
pregnant and how they
had sent her home from
the hospital.
WHAT AN INSENSITIVE BITCH!!!
I wanted to tell her that
at least they didn't send
her home WITHOUT HER BABY!!!
Whatever, the point being
-- I don't think I've
gotten to that beautiful
point Stephanie mentioned
about being able to realize
that the existence of
other babies does not
negate Lily.
The point is that they
are here and Lily's not
here and I'M PISSED OFF.
I don't understand why
they get their babies
and I don't. I DON'T UNDERSTAND,
I DON'T GET IT.
So, anyways, that's how
I feel.
Hope I didn't offend
anyone.
Melanie
Melanie, you are not a
horrible person, you are
where you are at... if I
were to be honest, I saw
the question and skipped
it.... then I read everyone
else's answers and knew
I was no where near that
and again decided to skip...
but then reading your answer,
I decided to share to let
you know you are not alone.
We are not horrible, just
can't come to that place
yet. I am angry as hell...
they tell me I
shouldn't have anymore,
so I have no use to see
other's babies or hear about
pregnancies or anything...
I would never be able to
hold a baby, go to a baby
shower or any thing like
that. I suppose I am lucky
that I have no siblings
that are pg right now because
I really don't think I would
go near them.... I don't
know... I was highly impressed
by these answers but again,
it reminded me how I am
no where near the others...
but don't down yourself...you
are who you are, no one
has to compare with others...
that is what makes us special
and unique... we all deal
with our grief our own way...sending
you lots of hugs
~Christine
I read all of your answers
on this question and I
can relate to all of your
experiences. For me myself,
currently being pregnant,
it's never really been
a thought to me that this
child would somehow replace
or lessen Raeyn's place
in our family. I have
ALOT of fears, but not
that. I feel sad at times
because I know that I
will share things with
this child & Ahren
(my 10 year old)that I
will never share with
Raeyn but I know that
she has a special part
of me...that in truth
can't be jeopardized by
anyone. She is and will
always be included in
our family's activities
in some special way. This
child that I'm carrying
will know his big sister
Raeyn as apart of his
or her family. I can't
compare my love for my
kids, living or deceased,
I love them the same.
None of them could be
replaced.
Hugs,
Keny Marie,
Mommy to Raeyn Jolie 11/9/02
: Right now I can
imagine you smiling because...
Right now I can imagine
you smiling because... I
know you see our family
trying to do our best without
you, I know you know how
much we miss you and love
you, but in your name, in
your memory, we try and
get up each day and live
the best we can. I think
you are also smiling because
you are assured that we
will never forget you and
that in itself tells you
how much we love you. love
mommy
~Christine
the hospital listened
to us and they're working
at trying not to let anyone
slip through the cracks
the way we did. I imagine
that you saw the brochure
when I did and while I
couldn't see the beauty
in it at the time, I like
to think now that you
were so proud of us at
that moment. Maybe someday
I'll be able to smile
when I look at it too.
~Nisa
you would be 3 years old
and so full of fun and mischief....I
imagine that you and Charlie
would be getting into trouble
constantly.....I can see
you grinning, covered in
chocolate....or mud....and
Charlie sticking up for
you to say it was his idea!!!
~Stephanie
For the first time in
the nearly four years
I've been missing you,
I'm feeling like life
is improving though with
some bumps along the way!
Don't get me wrong...I
still miss and love you...and
I still feel that heaviness
in my heart, because you're
not here. However, I am
beginning to see more
light at the end of that
extremely long tunnel
which I keep journeying
through. I may never reach
the end of the tunnel
until my own death, but
at least I feel more at
peace as I see more of
that light ahead of me.
I feel your warmth, and
I know you're smiling
when you surround me with
such love on a daily basis!
I dreamt of a little boy
last week about the age
you would have been now.
He had sandy brown hair
just like you and the
most beautiful smile.
You woke me up at 3am
after that dream and I
couldn't get that beautiful
image of you out of my
head! Thank you for showing
me what you would have
looked like as your human
self! I can definitely
tell you're very free
spirited just like me!
I love you with all my
heart and soul, Charles!
Love, Mom
it's almost your 1st birthday!!!!and
we bought you a present.
I have
a feeling you're peeking!!!!
:)
~Keny Marie,
Mommy to Raeyn Jolie 11/9/02
There is one place
that you like going more
than any place you have
ever gone... Describe it
to your child... as if they
were setting in front of
you, and you wanted them
to see it with your words.
There is a place near where
I grew up, called Castle
Rock. It is a huge rock
and piles of huge rocks
just set on a little hill
out in the middle of the
prairie. The rocks are an
off whiteish and brown and
tan color with streaks of
redish burnt orange through
them. They are huge. In
one spot, the wind and water
and time has worn a hole
clear through the rock,
and it is big enough that
a grown man can crawl through
it! When you climb to the
top, it is a plateau with
some small boulders seeminly
put there just for natural
benches.
The best time of day to
go there is evening, and
watching for cactus, climbing
to the top. We find a place
to sit and settle in to
watch the sunset. While
we are waiting, we see deer
come to drink in a stream
nearby.
Then the sun sets in the
most spectular shades of
pink and purple and orange
and blue. The clouds swirl
the colors into each other,
dancing in an end of the
day celebration. The hues
blend together slowly until
it is completely dark. Then
we pull out the flashlights
and climb back down carefully
and head home!
This place is the most
peaceful place on earth
for me. I have taken many
friends and boyfriends out
to see it, it is a natural
place a wondrous place,
so fun to explore over and
over again! When I was young,
we used to speculate on
HOW the rocks got there.....and
we decided that God caused
them to be there after the
Flood....I still believe
that!
Castle Rock is truely beautiful!
Stephanie
The one place that I
like visiting more than
any other place I've gone
to before is the Grand
Canyon. My Dear Charles,
It's the most beautiful
place I've ever seen with
my own eyes. It's like
walking into a masterpiece
painting with every color
imaginable all molded
together. Except this
painting is real and you
can touch it.
The air is crisp and
clean. The scents are
pure as nature. Close
your eyes, Charles, and
just breath...don't talk...you
can hear nature's harmony
in the breeze!
The most amazing sunsets
are seen here. The rays
of the morning and evening
sun will enhance &
highlight the colors along
the Canyon's walls. It's
a totally different view
for the eyes during those
times of the day. And
in the night sky...the
stars with their crystal
clear brightness gives
the feeling that you can
reach up and touch a part
Heaven!
If we camp there on the
grounds, it's a wonderful
way to awaken all the
senses of the human body!
There's all sorts of animals
to see...I love wildlife!
The deer and canyon squirrels
will come right up to
you begging for food!
But don't let the Rangers
see you feeding them!
Whenever I return to
the Grand Canyon and it's
time to leave, a bit of
sadness comes over me.
It was the last place
my brother (your Uncle)
and I vacationed at before
he died two weeks later
in 1992. I felt closer
to my brother on that
last family vacation then
any other time in years.
So, whenever I return,
it's hard to leave...I
can feel my brother there.
And that's one of the
reason's why I feel close
to Heaven at the Grand
Canyon.
I wish I could take you
there. I've often thought
of spreading your ashes
there; however, I'm not
sure if I can ever part
with your cremains. I
love you, Charles!
Love,
Mom
(Katie Smith)
My answer is: Well, my
dearest son, you have actually
be to LaPush with your father
and I :) In fact you were
conceived there on our honeymoon.
LaPush has this amazing
green lush river valley
that spills into the ocean
out on the coast on the
Olympic Penninsula here
in WA state. It is on Native
American land, and as you
drive into the village to
the water front, I swear
on my soul that the vibration
of Mother Earth changes
out there. The beach front
is rocky and filled with
drift wood in huge piles
-- tree stumps and logs
that are 3 times as big
as a human! The winds are
fierce, the sun is sharp,
the big rocky island just
off the coast is said to
be a sacred burial ground.
We have seen bald eagle
mating out there. We have
seen Orcas out there. We
have seen Puffins nesting
with their babies. We have
seen nests of ladybugs hatching.
We have flown kites, lit
camp fires on the beach,
counted 44 falling stars
(or where they meteors or
orbiting satellites?) all
in one night. Your father
loves it out there. Your
Nanna loves it out there.
Your Uncle Meko, Auntie
Moon, and Uncle Michael
all love it out there. I
have not been able to bring
myself back there since
you died. But now, some
four plus years later, I
am aching for it again.
Or maybe I am just aching
for you.
~kara
It seems that
alot of you have tattoos
that honor your children...what
was the process that took
you to deciding to do that?
In other words, how did
you come to make that decision?
Have you ever regretted
it? If you have other living
children, have you included
their names somehow? If
you have decided not to
-- why?
I do not have any tatoos
at all.
Stephanie
When I made the decision
to get my tattoo in memory
of Tyler I knew it was
something I had thought
about for a couple of
years and I knew that
it wasn t something I'd
regret getting because
I'd never want to forget
Tyler. He'll always be
my son and I'll always
want people to know that.
It's one of the best things
I've done for myself since
he died. My mom wanted
to know when I was going
to get tattoos for my
3 living children... I
told her that Tyler's
tattoo is a memorial tattoo
and I'd better never have
to get tattoos for any
of them.
Hugs,
Kim
I don't have any tattoos
(yet). However, I've contemplated
getting one since I lost
Charles. I
think it's a creative way
to express the love I have
for my Son. I'd like to
get a butterfly, because
I
feel he visits me often
in the form of one.
Love,
Katie
I have thought about
doing this but I cannot
bring myself to do so...If
I did though I would do
one with three little
angels, and Put each of
my children's names by
them. I would do this
because I want to treat
all my children the same.
Plus I do so much In Kirstin's
memory. So I would do
this one for all of my
children.
Have a good day
Lacey
I do not have any tattoos
either... but I want one
really bad... but I am scared
so that keeps me from getting
it....~Christine
I have other tattoo's
, Raeyn's was my lastest
one. I have never regretted
my tats. They all represent
something significant
in my life. My first was
my son's name when he
was 2 days old. I knew
eventually I'd get one
for her but I never thought
it would be a memorial
tattoo. :( Besides my
son's name...all the others
seem less significant
now. I got Raeyn's name
with angel wings and a
halo, RIP and her Bday
when she would've been
2 days old. I LOVE her
tat because it reminds
other people of her. I'll
catch a glimpse of it
in the mirror and it makes
her somehow a physical
part of my day.
~Keny Marie,
Mommy to Raeyn Jolie 11/9/02
I remember the first memorial
tat I saw. I was at a mom's
group. This woman showed
me this beautiful little
ankle tat of her son's name.
I flipped out and wanted
one sooooooooooo bad. But
geeeez those needles scare
the crap out of me. Plus
I'm a plus sized girl, so
maybe it would look ugly
on me?? BUT I did recently
discover this pattern that
is supposedly a Dakota Tribe
symbol. How cool would it
be to have THAT tat??? Hmmmmmm.....
~k.
When you are so
weary, you just want to
lay down and sleep forever,
how do you pull through
and keep going?
I go into the bathroom and
sit in a hot bubble bath
and cry.
~Stephanie
in answer to your question...i
want to say that i do
it for my kids or "God"
helps me through or I
think about the incredible
strength of the human
spirit and I remember
all the times in history
that people persevered
and made a difference
in their world BUT practically
what I do is give myself
a reward for "going
on." For getting
out of bed, for doing
work for pay or not, for
making sure my kids eat
five fruits and veggies
a day. That reward might
be dinner out, it might
be shoes, it might be
chocolate, it might be
a very dirty martini,
it might be a very large
glass of diet coke with
lots of "bought"
ice (I love to chew ice).
These are all things that
I can look forward to
so I can do the little
things that seem so overwhelming.
I used to rely on people
to do that for me, to
pull me out of the mud
but now I don't trust
people so much so I guess
I'm relying on "things."
Or maybe it's just relying
on yourself, I don't know.
Sometimes, too, I forget
that in the worst places,
if I ask [my husband]
to be there, he will be.
Sometimes he disappoints,
like all people, but many,
many times he has pulled
through and done the right
thing at the right time
(like let me lay in bed
all day and watch the
Food Network and read
Harry Potter).
~Melanie
I do find extreme joy in
my husband's eyes...he is
my floatation device....my
kitty's cute face and my
pups warm eyes.. The first
warm sip of a fresh cup
of mug of tea....the new
harry potter book....I don't
know what does it for you...just
hold on .... hold on because
that is what we can do....
~Ang
Sometimes we just need
a break from the crazies
of every day life. When
I'm craving that rest
I give myself permission
to take that mini-vacation.
If I have to wait to take
that break, I will walk
away for a few minutes
to take some deep relaxing
breathes maybe even a
power nap if possible.
I tell myself to hang
in there...the day is
almost over. When I'm
finally free to take that
time out for myself, I'll
run a long hot bubble
bath and unwind with a
novel or write in my journal.
Sincere Hugs to All those
with Weary bones...
~Katie
Everything has
felt so doomy and gloomy
lately -- I know we all
have icky stuff and shadow
issues we are dealing with
in one way or another. But
I'm wondering if there is
anything you do or can imagine
doing that just lets you
feel like a normal, maybe
even joyful, person for
a moment or a day?
today, i decided that there
is too much happening for
me to try and control anything,
even if i could do that,
which i can't anyway :)
so.... for the better part
of today, i just did stuff.
put some packets together
to mail out, talked to my
mom, put a few books together,
did some reading about "life-drawing".
made sure hawk & i both
had yummy warm soup for
lunch. and it was just a
day. it was nice. on the
imaginary, dream, total
joyful side of things --
well, for me it is always
about water :) I look at
this photo of me in the
pool at MISS 02 and then
the photos from this last
conference, and i just DREEEEEEEAM
of next year -- and know
that i'll have at least
one day there where i'll
be in that
pool for like 8 hours straight
-- and will be with friends
-- and will have yummy mexican
dinner :) miracles,
k-
This is a really good
question.... I am not
sure....I will put on
a fun movie or a listen
to some really great songs
from my youth, sometimes
that helps... I try and
work on this though because
sometimes I just stay
down... and gloomy and
I have a hard time recovering...I
will be interested to
see what others have to
say.. great question...
~Christine
Before last week my answer
would have been a sullen,
nothing. Nothing makes me
feel normal. But...I was
at the park with my boys
the other day and it's this
big wooden park that has
all these steps and bridges
and hiding places -- robbie
calls it a castle. More
like a big fort. Anyways,
I very rarely play with
them when we go there, I
more watch to make sure
they're ok. But I started
chasing robbie and all of
the sudden i was having
fun. like little kid fun.
going down slides and laughing.
i guess i just "let
go" for a minute. i
felt like a good mom, like
a fun person instead of
the "downer."
~ Melanie
I also LOVE the water.
My first choice is always
to go to the beach or
near the ocean. I live
about 5 blocks from the
bay so if I'm up to it,
I'll walk down and just
sit by the ater. It calms
me. The actual beach is
better. It's the smell,
the sound of the waves.
It's sooo relaxing.It
takes evrything away...if
only for a minute.
Lately though, I've had
to settle for my bathtub,
which in itself is a treat
for me. I LOVE hot baths.
I use vailla bubble, baby
oil and "Purple Stuff"
which is a mineral bath
soak that smells like
lavendar. I'll light candles
& incense, play some
music...usually Sade or
something really mellow.
Now, this doesn't take
away my thoughts all of
the time, but it does
melt away the stress I
feel physically and it
helps me to relax.
Keny Marie,
Mommy to ^~Raeyn Jolie~^
11/9/02
****When I scrapbook, I
am transformed back to that
day in the photos. I love
to put the pics together
in a nice layout with journaling.....just
thinking of the fun we had
that day makes me feel like
I am a normal person again.
~Stephanie
I feel Normal when I
can work on web pages
for Kirstin or when I
do her scrap book. I like
to make them look nice.
Plus I love to go back
to that day and just hold
on to the moment where
I can remember holding
her.
God Bless
Lacey
Mommy to Kirstin
Born sleeping July 17,
2001
If I'm unable to do something
physically to perk myself
up, I think back on something
that has made me laugh in
the past. I usually end
up laughing out loud as
I remember and it makes
me feel good. For instance,
recently I took a trip to
the post office. I wanted
to buy Cary Grant stamps.
However, the lady helping
me said, "I don't have
Cary Grant, but I'll see
if any of the other ladies
have him." She went
on to yell out to the other
workers, "Do any of
you have Cary Grant in your
drawers?" I thought
that was hilarious...I guess
I have a warped brain...LOL!
It must run in the family,
because I later told my
Mom in front of her friends
and my Mom and I were the
only ones that laughed about
it. If I have the free time,
taking a random road trip
with my Mom or a friend
makes me feel good, too.
We just pack up the cooler
with some drinks and snacks
and head on out to anywhere
and make a day of it! It's
a great way to escape the
doomy and gloomy of life
even if it's only temporary.
~Katie
For me...flowers...growing
them from seed, nurturing
them, and then watching
them die...because I know
I will harvest the seeds
and plant them next year...digging
in the dirt gives me oy...peace...quiet
solitude...pride...self
confidence....
~Ang
We'll have more Q &
A in November...
This is a discussion and
support group held online
thru the free services of
Yahoo Groups. Stephanie
Marrotek is the host of
the Grief Journey Q &
A. The full group is moderated
by the staff of KotaPress.
The answers given in this
Q & A were offered by
the generous hearts of the
members of our online group.
We cannot thank you enough
for your candor and honesty.
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