Grief
Journey Q & A, Pt. II
In Honor and Loving
Memory of Our Children
Editor's Intro:
Welcome to Part III of our Grief Jouney Q & A. The content here is generated from an online discussion and support group for bereaved parents. The creator of this Grief Journey Q & A is Stephanie Marrotek who posts questions once a day or couple times a week and invites all members of the discussion group to post answers. In addition to answering on the group, some members have elected to share their insights in a more public way through this column. Our hope is that you will find some spark of inspiration or comfort or help here. These words are not offered as prescription for the ways we "should" handle grief. These are just insights into how others are managing day by day after the death of a child.
The Q & A
Question 1: Have you had to deal with a close relative or friend's pregnancy when you were desperately trying to conceive again? How did you manage to get thru that?
Answers:
I had to deal with my [sister
in law] announcing her pregnancy
about a month after Amanda
died....she got pregnant
the week Amanda passed away....for
the longest time, I thought
that her baby stole my baby's
soul.....I couldn't look
at her or hold her or even
talk about her.....she is
now 2 1/2 and I am ok with
her, but once in a while
it gets me, that my daughter
would be 9 months older
than her.....while SIL was
pg she lived in another
town, so I was able to avoid
her.....now she is pg again
and lives next door, that
is super hard....thank God
they found a house to move
to and will be moving in
the next 3 weeks, 8 hours
away!! That will be much
easier for me.
I also had to deal with a bunch of friend's pregnancy's, there were 18 of us pregnant the year that Amanda died....I had to watch ALL of them give birth to healthy babies, in the months following my loss...we moved out of that town the next year...it was too hard.
I have cried and cried
until I thought that I could
not cry anymore....yet the
tears keep comming.
It is very hard to deal
with others pregnancies
now.
~Stephanie
Yes, in fact we had to deal with like 7 of them all at the same time a year ago. These were the first pregnancy's in 3 years since our own's son's death -- the first we could not avoid or get around.
Handling each one was different though -- just as grief is different for each individual. These people around us who were pregnant were all individual and different in the ways they dealt with us, too. How to explain?
For instance, there were several who were pregnant who just wanted to go "lala" thru it, never talk to us about Dakota, were just not at all in the reality we are in. Therefore, we just all fell away from each other. I didn't talk to them. They didn't talk to us. And they have gone on "lala" through their lives. Which is totally fine. But is also not something I want in my everyday life because it is so naive and just not "of me".
Then there were two *very good friends* who have really really really understood Dakota's life and death. These two friends really talked to me. Really said to me, "I know this isn't a *la la* experience because Dakota taught me something and so I want to share this with you and I want to know from you what to ask of my doctors..." etc. These women knew the risks and looked at them as something that any parent would want to know and try to do the best they could to prevent those risks, etc. These women both told me that they would actually say little prayers to Kota to say that if he were on the other side with their unborn children, then would he be a guide and protector to the unborns. These women told me that they *felt* Kota with them in delivery. These women invited me to their baby showers, but never expected me to come, and so made time to see me privately after the showers so I could give them gifts and we could talk in quiet reality about the "shower" experience for them. They *included me and my son* in their lives. Dealing with them was pretty easy. Because it was real. Because we all honored each other. We all gave credence to the reality we all were living.
Then there was one that was complicated by the fact that the mom was a teenager. This one was very hard for me to deal with. I love her. She's my stepdaughter. I love her child. He's our grandson. She definitely talked with me about Dakota and included us as much as she could. But there were so many other things going on with her mother, the baby's father, the in-law family who are Mormon. That one was complicated and, at best, I have kept it all at bay because the circumstances just kill me. I thank God/dess for the safety and continued healthy living of both daughter and grandson, but I have so many fears for them. I want to help in their lives, but I can't. Rather, I chose to take a position of distance and let everyone live as they wish, have their own triumphs, their own mistakes, and stay out of it. Not the healthy rosy family picture I'd like. But it is a situation that, again, is not "of me" -- and when I try to get in there to be a part of it, it just kills the living cells of my heart. So I hang back and "let it be".
Anyway, so you can see that "managing to get through it" is very individual for me...for whatever that is worth...k-
Although it was nearly 10 years ago after our first two losses, I will always remember one dear friend who wrestled with having to "tell me" of her pregnancy. She herself had suffered two losses and "knew" the feelings. What helped most was our honesty with one another...Don't get me wrong, it was HARD!!!! But I found myself spending more time with her, helping her out around the house, as she had some complications. Being immersed in her pregnancy rather than avoiding it helped me. to this day, her little one who is now nine is special to me...I remember how being with him helped to heal my aching broken heart. His mom's love really helped.
(On another note, in these
past four years since the
loss of our last baby it
has been really hard, especially
since we ended in loss.
That's another chapter that
I'm still 'writing. Sometimes
with not
much success!)
Thanks for listening!
~Martha
Actually yes. Ashley died 10/29/97 (it took us 3 1/2 years to have her). I resumed my fertility medications in 12/97. I got pregnant in June 1998 but miscarried my second baby 7/28/98. I felt so broken and useless. It was Thansgiving 1998 and we were at my in-laws. We were playing cards with my in-laws and my hubby's brother and his wife. They made the announcement at the table. I was shocked. I could feel the tears starting so I excused myself and went to the bathroom. I thought I could control myself but long story short....my husband found me 25 minutes later curled up on the bathroom floor sobbing uncontrollably. I was so embarrassed. Amy and Curt felt bad and Joe explained to them that I was happy for them but with everything we have been through sometimes our emotions are uncontrollable. They were very understanding.(They are the only ones in his family that we talk to at this time....huge family fight.) His parents ont eh other hand ignired what had happened and were mad that I had disrupted the card game.
~Carrie
Oh my. My hubby's dear
friend just had a baby girl,
Emma, a few weeks ago. of
course we were preggers
together and she has a little
boy close in age to mine.
although i don't like her,
we did spend time together.
now we don't see them at
all because neither rob
or i can handle any kind
of baby girl. sad, i know.
so selfish of me. i just
am very jealous of her and
her healthy baby. very,
very jealous and i think
it is very very unfair.
i don't care how silly i'm
being.
~Melanie
I've been very jealous.
There are friends who've announced their pregnancies to me and I've ended up just avoiding them, some even now that their babies are here.
There are a couple of friends that I haven't felt any such animosity towards. One is 14 weeks now and she was very understanding when I told her about Adam. A new close friend just had a baby in June, but she's been very supportive and because she has been where I am now, I know she understands. I even went to visit her in the very hospital where I lost Adam and I was okay with it. It's the ones who've really made an effort to be understanding that I am more willing and able to keep the lines of communication open with. The ones who don't realize how sensitive a subject it is with me...or the ones who do realize, but end up being worried or afraid to say things around me - especially the ones who are honest and have told me how difficult it must be for me to hear about their pregnancy woes - are the ones that I have a hard time with.
~Nisa
I haven't tried to conceive
again since my loss. I have
dealt with several friends
and relatives pregnancies,
since I've become a bereaved
parent. It's not easy to
say the least. Especially
when my best friend got
pregnant just 6 months after
I lost Charles. I was jealous,
envious, angry, scared,
and depressed to list some
of the various emotions
that came with her pregnancy
and ultimate healthy, live
birth of her precious baby
boy. I was happy for her,
but really sad for me. I
always ask myself, "Why?"
Why do they get to have
healthy living children,
but I lost Charles? It doesn't
seem right nor fair. To
manage and get through such
difficult moments of others
being pregnant, I usually
will journal, chat with
a fellow bereaved parent
that understands, take a
scenic drive to clear my
thoughts, or just
cry...sometimes a good cry
is the best medicine! I
just take each moment as
it comes and deal with it
in the best way I know possible.
~Katie D. Smith, Bereaved
Parent to Charles Christopher,
Stillborn on 11/6/1999
Question 2: In what ways has your church/religion helped you/not helped you deal with shadow issues of grief?
Answers:
My church hasn't....my personal
faith has carried me through....if
I didn't believe, I think
I would have turned to drinking.
~Stephanie
Church and religion, aye? Well, I'm pretty cynical about stuff, but I can say that *my investigation* of *world wide religions, rituals, belief systems* has helped me tremendously. At the very least, this investigation opened my eyes to the fact that grief is world-wide, bereaved parents are everywhere, and there are far too many children dying everyday in this world.
In a general way, things that have helped me:
- I found out that in the Jewish faith, bereaved people are not expected to attend party or celebratory functions or even gatherings outside of their regular services at synagouge, for ONE WHOLE YEAR!!! They are not expected to "be over it" in a few weeks.
- I found that in the Mexican Catholic traditions, they celebrate Day of the Dead every year where families gather in the cemetaries to clean and decorate graves with toys, ribbons, colored lights, flowers and more. They then have a party right there, with music and food and candy and costumes. It is one of the "true roots" of Halloween -- but their costumes have meaning. Their remembrances happen every year. They start building ofrendas or remembrance altars in their homes in the beginning of October and they tend to them all month. Every year for an entire month, they are honoring the dead, recognizing grief.
- I found that in the Buddhist faith, they have a bodhisattva called Jizo and there are large Jizo garden throughout Japan and other parts of the world -- a couple of them in the US -- where bereaved families are welcome anytime. Jizo is a little like Saint Christopher in Western Systems. Jizo is protector and gaurdian of bereaved parents, pregnant women, children, travellers. Jizo is called upon in everyday life, acknowledging that any transition can be exciting, but also dangerous, and may call forth grief. The Jizo Garden at the Jizo-in Zen Monastery in Clatskanie, Oregon, is full of Jizo statues that have been clothed or decorated by bereaved people, including notes, toys, memorials to children who have died.
And a lot more...but you get the picture...I just don't believe there is any single religion or manifestation of "God" that holds the *entire* truth. I think they are all valid and hold pieces of the truth. I think when we weave them all back together, there is truly a more whole picture, a closer manifestation of Peace on Earth. But as long as they are all divided and calling Ghihad to kill each other in the name of one religion or another -- then that is not peace. And bereaved people will suffer because the rules held fast by one religion or another -- where as I think bereaved people could have a full expression of all that grief brings if they could share thru the many different rituals and services offered by *all*.
Just my thoughts...k-
Well...it's been an evolving
road to all of this...and
I must say that for the
most part my Church has
helped me in my grief. My
Church, for this part, my
Church community...those
helping caring
people that I actively had
to search out for support
in so many of the issues.
I must also admit that I
had been disappointed in
the lack of knowledge and
outreach in our Catholic
Diocese, and that is
when I finally began our
SHARE group with the amazing
bereavement coordiator of
the diocese. In my opinion,
these three years have opened
many hearts, eyes, and ears
of clergy and bereavement
ministers therin. Pregnancy
and infant loss, as we know,
is a most silent of sorrows,
and awareness is growing
inour area due to our group
and several wonderful hopsital-based
groups in our LI area.
Lots of work to be done,
but "family by family"...we
are reaching out. My dream
is for bereaved families
not to have to search high
and low for help when they
don't have the energy or
the strength to do so...
Thanks for listening...
~Martha
My personal relationship with God and his Son are what have kept me here. God has carried me through all of this. As for my church. We are trying different churches right now. The one we attended when Ashley died was awesome. They were there for us in our time of sorrow. We are forever grateful to everyone there. However, we have decided to move on to a different church. We miss everyone at our old church but it was too hard to hear the same congregation sing the same songs that were at my daughter's funeral. It broke my heart every time. So we decided it was time to move on.
~Carrie
When I lost Charles, I
had a strong belief/faith
in God; however, I didn't
belong to a church. The
day I gave birth to my stillborn
Son, I meant the hospital
chaplain who was a Pastor
at an area church. She welcomed
me to talk with her any
time and she has remained
in contact with me since
that fateful day. She helped
me with Charles funeral
arrangements and offered
to do his baptism and final
services. Her church welcomed
me with open arms and warm
hearts with much kindness.
Although I know longer belong
to that church, I will forever
be grateful to them for
all the care they provided
to me. And I'm very honored
to have such a wonderful
friend as Pastor Ann. She
has been extremely
helpful in many ways. My
faith in the spiritual world
has also given me peace
of mind that Charles is
at peace.
~Katie D. Smith, Bereaved
Parent to Charles Christopher,
Born Still on November 6,
1999
Question 3: What is the one thing that makes you think of your child the most?
Answers:
Seeing other little baby
girls with dark hair and
brown eyes. Also every day
when I wake up without morning
sickness and a heavy belly,
I think of her and am reminded
of what I lost.
~Stephanie
The answer to this one has changed over time for me. At first it was the 11th of each month -- just hitting the eleventh day was another tick on the calendar of him being gone.
But now the thing that comes up most is his name. There is a new little actress getting lots of press these days -- about 7 years old, named Dakota. arg. There's a new animation out and one of the bears is named Kota -- well they spell it Koda or Coda as in kodiak bears, I'm sure, but it sounds the same on screen.
Oh and there is always the Dakota Sport trucks and always seem to land in the parking spot right next to us. Doesn't matter where we are, on or off island. There's always one of those trucks.
k-
ONE THING???? This is a
near-impossible question
to answer!! A good one,
all the same...
The "one thing"
that makes me think of our
children in heaven is what
might have been...in our
family....the "spaces"
they would "fill, where
grief and growth has replaced
them....One thing....a zillion-trillion
things could not contain
my thoughts!
~Martha
The one thing that makes me think of my Son most is every night when I look at his bears that surround his urn and wish him a good night, and every morning when I wake up to a silent house knowing that he's not here.
~Katie D. Smith, Bereaved Parent to Charles, Stillborn 11/6/1999
My living children.
~Christine
Well it is actually two things...
1) Another little girl that is the same age as Ashley.
2) My second daughter, Cori. She was born just before Ashley's second birthday.
~Carrie
Question 4: Speaking of signs...What are some things that have happened to you that you felt certain were signs from your child?
Answers:
A tiny bird that appears
out of nowhere and lands
right beside us not moving....
a butterfly that stays with
us for long periods of time,
a rainbow in a cloudless,
rainless sky, a gust of
wind at the cemetery on
a calm windless day that
rings the chimes when we
are there, acts of love
that happen out of nowhere
to comfort our family.
~Christine
The time when Eric and I went out separately, within the same hour, without the other knowing and purchased star votive candle holders on Adam's due date...The cupcakes that spelled out Adam after Emma's birthday party...On his birthday when the balloon holding our notes got stuck between the house and the tree and the balloon re-do the next day when the new bouquet of balloons were stuck for a few tense moments on a very high branch of one of the evergreens on the side of our house. And the time that Emma came running out of her room one morning, insisting that the doctor was going to help another baby out of my belly.
~Nisa
Hard to say. Used to be
that we'd see his name --
which used to be unusual
-- in unusual places. Like
once before we were preggers,
but knew what his name was
already, we hiked up to
Paradise at Mt. Rainier
with friends. When we got
to the top, we split into
two groups, boy & girls,
headed for the
separate bathrooms. When
we girls came out, Monica
noticed that someone had
written into the snow, in
huge capital letters, "DAKOTA".
I thought it was Hawk. But
then the boys came out,
and none of them had done
it. We sort of stood there
staring at it in disbelief.
Then on our honeymoon we were listening to a "manifestation" tape in the car. It is a very relaxing kind of thing, and Hawk said, "Stop that tape till I find a place to pull over so that I don't fall asleep driving." He pulled over at the next spot available where there was a large boulder in front of us -- what do you think was spray painted across that boulder in a large cap letters? "DAKOTA"
Stuff like that. Used to
happen all the time before
his death. Now, I guess
it does still happen, but
it's different now. My heart
falls to aching now instead
of leaping for joy, you
know? ugh.
k-
I always feel Charles'
spirit surround me. It's
a feeling that I have...a
touch that warms me. I do
get signs from him too.
Every year on his birthday
in November after the monarch
butterflies have migrated
south, a single beautiful
monarch butterfly visits
me. Recently, I had moved
his first teddy bear to
an area by his urn in my
room. I made my bed and
left the room for about
5 minutes. I was home alone.
I came back into my room,
glanced over at his bear.
It had been moved to the
other end of the table against
some Peter Rabbit books.
I wonder if he wanted me
to read a story? I know
in my heart it was Charles.
~Katie D. Smith, Bereaved
Parent to Loving Son, Charles,
Born Silent on 11/6/1999
I have never experienced those types of things...if I see a butterfly, I think, what a gorgeous butterfly, not "ohhh that must be from Amanda." When I find a penny, I think, ohh a penny for Charlie's piggybank, but not, "ohhh a penny from heaven from Amanda.". Etc. I guess I am too practical to see that type of thing. Or maybe just to pessemistic?? Whatever it is, I am very disappointed to not get signs from her....BUT the reason for this may be, becase she is gaurdian angel for Mikaili, a little girl who was born when Amanda was supposed to be. Mikaili's mom and I were best friends, and she told me when Mikaili was about 3 months old that she felt that Amanda was her daughter's gaurdian angel, that she was getting signs from her..So that may be why, she is not here, she is there with them....
~Stephanie
Question
5: Has there been
a song that has made you
think of your child... if
so, what song and perhaps
share some of the lyrics
with us! [PLEASE NOTE:
Because of copyright laws,
we are not at liberty to
publish lyrics in full here
without express permissions
from the artists. So for
these answers, we are simply
sharing as much as we can
about the song title for
you to discover the music/lyrics
on your own.]
Answers:
Ugh. I have to say that
there was this one song
they played at Kota's funeral.
I don't hear it a lot --
I think it was called like
"Time to Say Goodbye"
or something -- by one of
those tenor kinda singin'
guys. I hear it in Italian
eateries a lot. Anyway,
it isn't a pleasant association
though. I hate hearing it.
It brings me right back
to that gawd awful room
with everyone just standing
around looking at the hysterical
mother and Hawk just sobbing
next to me and no one ever
even telling us we could
open that goddamned casket
to hold him one more time
-- to hold him at all in
my case since i never did
get him in the hospital.
I hate that song.
The only song I like hearing
is "Kota's Song"
when Hawk sings it. That's
the only one that will ever
be a "good" one
for me -- and even that
one is a comfort only because
it fully speaks of my aching.
If that makes any sense
at all...
k -
Glory Baby
Words and music by Nathan and Christy Nockels
Sung by Watermark
From the CD "All Things New""A Visitor From Heaven"
by Twila ParisHello, Goodbye
by Michael W SmithOnly One
by Tracy ChapmanI Believe
by Diamond Rio
Question 6: I can't help but smile when I remember...
Answers:
the feel of her little feet
pushing at my ribs....like
she was anxious to get out
and see the world....I miss
that feeling of life under
my heart.
~Stephanie
I can't help but smile when I hear music that it seemed you would dance to, when I was pregnant with you certain songs would come on the radio and you would just jump all around... I love to remember my pregnancy with you, it was such a special time. I love to remember feeling your fingers and toes and your little body jumping all around until all you could do was roll back and forth because you ran out of room....
~Christine
I can't even think of an
answer to this question
-- isn't that pathetic?
My hub is really the optimistic
one, but I tend more toward
cynicism and pessimism.
So I really don't know.
When I think back to those
"happy" pregnant
times, all I think is how
stupid I was, how naive
and ignorant, how disgustingly
pampered I'd been my whole
life to think that time
was mine. I guess I do smile
now when I hear someone
talking about "living
a life of abundance"
or how they have a good
life because they "chose
love instead of fear"
or when they put their faith
in the "Goddess and
the abundance of Nature"
because that is all such
crap. If that stuff were
really true, then you would
have to look me in the face
and tell me that I am responsible
for my son's death because
I wasn't thinking about
love and abundance, right?
But I was thinking all that
-- doing yoga and all that
bullshit. So I smile now
when I hear someone say
that shit because I know
that they are still in "la-la"
land and have illusions
of control. But it's a cynical
humor.
k-
When I remember how excited I was when I found out you were a girl! I was so scared to be pregnant and sick again and so scared that I would be a bad mom to your brothers while I was puking my guts out and then that ultrasound tech said that you were a girl and I was so amazed. I had gotten so used to little boys -- to their roughhousing and guns (i, too, was one of those moms who said no guns and then ended up with stick guns) and their just plain dirtiness. And then there was you and I thought constantly about dance classes and pigtails and little skirts and red shoes and velvet winter coats and all of those things that don't matter. What matters is you were really my little baby girl -- in my body and in my heart. I gave you a girly name -- Lily -- because I treasured that about you. I miss you.
~Melanie
I can't help but smile
when I remember...Seeing
you for the first time in
that peaceful little chapel.
You were at such peace and
so very beautiful eternally
sleeping in that antique
oak doll's cradle. I smile
at that memory with sadness,
too. With a smile comes
many tears as I remember
you. I smile as I look back
on that day, being able
to spend time with you,
hold you, kiss you, admire
every angelic feature of
you. There was a special
glow surrounding you that
day. I felt your tender
soulful
presence there with me.
The warmth you gave me that
day will forever live on
within me. I know you would
have been an amazing person
that would have done many
wonderful things in his
life. Just as I also know
that you are an even far
more amazing angel that
brings comfort to me each
day. You have a beautiful
soul, my precious Charles.
I miss you during every
waking moment, and I miss
you as I dream of the life
we could have had together.
You will forever live on
in my heart, and I will
always love you!
~Katie
We'll have more Q & A in October...
About
the Kota Discussion Group
This is a discussion and
support group held online
thru the free services of
Yahoo Groups. Stephanie
Marrotek is the host of
the Grief Journey Q &
A. The full group is moderated
by the staff of KotaPress.
The answers given in this
Q & A were offered by
the generous hearts of the
members of our online group.
We cannot thank you enough
for your candor and honesty.
